Austin Sound

The first Fun Fun Fun Fest emerged almost by accident in December of 2006, the result of too many big names converging on Austin at once for then-Emo’s booker Graham Williams to place in various venues. A year later, Williams had founded Transmission Entertainment and reinvigorated the north end of Red River, with the Fun Fun Fun Fest serving as the capstone of the new company. Now in it’s fourth year, the Fest has become a uniquely Austin event - dedicated to a small but eclectic grassroots and indie music scene that has come to represent the aesthetic of Transmission Entertainment itself. We sat down with Williams at Transmission’s new headquarters in a house at the corner of 8th and Red River as they readied for the final run of Fun Fun Fun Fest preparations, and spoke at length about the evolution of the Fest, how big Transmission and FFFFest can get, and the good and bad of Austin’s contemporary competitive booking scene. Fun Fun Fun, of course, goes on this Saturday and Sunday in Waterloo Park, with afterparties spilling out all down Red River through the weekend.

Interview: Transmission Entertainment’s Graham Williams

Austin Sound: Over the past three Fests, what have you learned? What’s worked, and what’s not worked?

Graham Williams: Sure. On the booking side of it, I think we’re usually pretty right on, although there’s always a few times where you book someone who either you pay more money and you think they’re going to draw more, and surprisingly they don’t, and then there are also some bands that we think are going to be smaller that end up kind of being a surprise to everyone.

AS: How do you gauge who draws?

GW: We’re booking shows year round so we see that, and you track record sales, we watch stuff closely online as far as press, and we go to other festivals, so we usually have a pretty good idea of who’s going to be the bigger bands and the smaller bands. But every once in a while you’ll book someone, like there were a couple of acts last year that were solid that I was really happy to book, like the Cro-Mags and Kool Keith, that ended up having some of the biggest crowds, and then some acts that we book that we thought might be a little bit bigger. So some of that’s a little bit of a learning experience, but we’re usually pretty right on with the booking. I think it’s always just the little details, the production, things like we should have had an extra golf cart or we needed an office in this area of the park, or we needed more bathrooms – there’s always something that we try to plan ahead and do it right, and sometimes we overshoot or undershoot and it’s hard to gauge that.

But I think our fourth year in this location, we’ve got it pretty much down to a science at this point.

AS: Well in that vein, what’s new this year, both on the organizational side behind the scenes, and for the fans.

GW: Across the board I think the booking’s a little bigger. Every year we get bigger and bigger bands; either we up our budget a little and fly in some bands from out of town that weren’t on tour, or we go ahead and take a chance here and there. But a lot of bands, I think, before when it was kind of a new festival, you’re trying to sell people on it. But now I think bands know about it, they’ve read about it, they’ve been to it and seen it online and had friends’ bands who’ve played, and now they actually want to play, so that’s gotten a lot easier.

We’ve also added a lot more comedy. Before we were kind of dipping our toe in it, but this year, the Yellow Stage is probably 60% comedians. Some the acts last year really drew well, and this year, like with The Whitest Kids You Know, a lot of acts that are well known are playing. But I think that it’s just fun, it’s cool, there’s a lot of indie comics, comics who in their comedy world are the same way a lot of folks are about music, where they don’t like the mainstream comedy as much and do something a little different. And they all kind of cross over – like Sub Pop puts out a ton of comedians’ records – so we definitely kind of tapped into that, and it’s something where I really appreciate that there’s another sub genre and I want to include that. And it’s a great break up – if you’re at a Fest and you’re watching bands all day, to go sit in the grass and just laugh your ass off for half an hour, and then go back and watch another band, it’s a great way to break up any music festival.

AS: How would you describe the aesthetic of Fun Fun Fun Fest, especially as it’s evolved, and when you were starting out, what other Fests were you looking at as models.

GW: It was tough, because I don’t feel like anyone was really doing exactly what we’re doing. The first year I did it, it sort of happened on accident and we put it together, so the next year I was like, “I gotta research this and figure out what we’re gonna do.” So I went to a lot of festivals, and every year I still go to as many as I can, outside of Austin and inside of Austin. But after that, I think we were able to look at how people do things backstage, and from the audience perspective, kind of going as a fan and as working in the music business. I always look at both things and pay attention to that whenever I go to festival, being behind the scenes, and in the front.

But overall, it’s hard to say that there’s any festival that we model ours after, because I don’t think I did. For one, I didn’t want it to be like any one else’s; I wanted to have the most original festival I could. There’s Riot Fest or The Fest in Gainesville, those are like punk fests, and then there’s Pitchfork, which is pretty much an indie rock fest, and there’s Rock the Bells, which is Hip-Hop, and then there’s more mainstream ones and tons that do a lot of indie rock. But I kind of felt like there was nothing that took all of these things that are in the independent music scene. They all kind of cross paths – a lot of these people are on each other’s records, a lot of these people are on the same label, same agencies and managers, appreciated by a lot of the same scene – and kind of weaving all of that together, I don’t think that’s been done as much. So I think we just kind of looked at all the festivals and what we liked about each of them and what we didn’t like and what we wanted to do differently. I think probably Pitchfork and a couple of those smaller festivals are probably most similar as far as aesthetic, and as far as it being more about the fans and the music and less about just ticket sales. A lot of those festivals, it feels like you’re just at a big club with all of your friends, it’s just that you have 1500 friends that day.

AS: Well how do you balance that very communal, down home feel, especially as it gets bigger and bigger every year?

GW: It almost works itself out organically, for the most part. I think kids in the scene are going to talk amongst themselves, and as long as we keep them talking, keep advertising, we keep putting fliers in people’s hands and making sure that the bands are all doing their part and helping spread the word, then it’s just this sort of thing that everyone wants to go to.

I know that we continue to grow, but I know that we have a ceiling. We’re never going to grow too big, and like I said, that’s going to happen naturally, not only because I don’t want to, really, but we just don’t book bands that are big enough to ever be at ACL or Bonnaroo. We don’t book mainstream artists, and we’re never really going to branch out into that, we’re never going to start booking stuff that we don’t like. So we’re always going to book the music that we’re into and that the people that we know are into, and there are some bigger acts, but we know that there is a point when we can’t be any bigger than this, and that’s fine, because I don’t want it to be any bigger and because we’ve always looked at our self as the festival for people who don’t like festivals. If we’re too big, we’ll just be another festival. So we’re trying to keep the vibe that people want and keep it a community based thing.

AS: What is that ceiling, in your mind anyway?

GW: I don’t know. I mean, Waterloo [Park] at the most can do probably 10,000 people, maybe double that at most if it was at a bigger park and it was more room with more things to do so it didn’t feel like you’re in the middle of 20,000 people. Coachella does that well. I don’t know what that point is, but I know that we’ll never be bigger than that. Pitchfork, I think, is 18,000, and that’s a comfortable, large show. It doesn’t feel so large that I’m not having fun when I’m there. I could never see it being bigger than that, not only because I couldn’t see it ever growing to that size, but I would never want it to be. If it was bigger than that, it wouldn’t be the same festival and I don’t think I’d want to do it anymore.

AS: I wanted to also ask about Transmission. How do you see the company’s evolution over the past couple of years since it’s started.

GW: It’s been fast. We started it just as sort of this idea that I wanted to book various bands and put them in the right rooms, have a company, a one stop shop for booking agents and bands to say, “Hey, we’re coming to your town, we want to play a show, where should we play and who should we play with,” and we’ll promote the shows and get people out. That being said, it’s hard work, it’s always a struggle. Every year, every month, you never know, because there’s touring season when it’s busy and some shows do amazing, some shows aren’t as good. But we know where we’re at and how we’re growing, and I think we’re definitely continuing to do so and continuing to do stuff outside of our little world we started in.

But it’s happening quickly, and we definitely did a lot more outside of our venues, and even did more outside of Austin this past year. We booked all these events in New York, like the Jelly NYC pool parties, things like that, just doing more and more booking on both larger and smaller levels. Everything from the band that draws 50 people to the band that draws 5,000, we’re definitely into whatever music comes from this little world that we’re a part of, whether it’s growing or staying about the same size.

AS: Is that goal for Transmission, either eventually or now, to expand outside of Austin?

GW: Maybe. I mean, right now, it’s very local based, and I’d rather expand more inside of Austin a bit. I think we can do some bigger stuff as a lot of the artists we book get bigger. I have to turn down big shows all the time, just because we don’t have a specific place set up to do some of that sort of stuff. But eventually, yeah, maybe I would do more stuff outside of Austin. I’m one of those people who doesn’t want to grow before we’re ready. I don’t want to try to establish something without the infrastructure, without the right people working for us, and have it fall apart. I’d rather do it right, step by step, and that’s definitely our goal.

Also, though, I would probably only do things in other places if it was a place that I felt needed that. I talk to a lot of agents and a lot of bands, and a lot of people in other scenes, and there are a lot of people who do a great job and I would never want to step on someone’s toes and go into their city where they’re doing a great job and they have great venues and start competing with people who are doing the same thing. It would be like opening a record store next to your friend’s record store. I don’t want to take away from that, because each city has its own scene, and I hate this Wal-Mart idea of booking, whether you’re Live Nation or much lower down. But yeah, if it’s needed and it’s available and it’s something that we can grow into, then I’m up for it, for sure.

AS: Well, along those lines of competition, every now and then the talk comes up about the “booking wars.”

GW: Sure, yeah. In Austin, especially. Actually every city’s like that.

AS: Sure, but I’m thinking of stuff like when Room 710 closed and [it’s owner] Asher [Garber] said that he couldn’t really do anything with these big booking giants all around me.

GW: Yeah, yeah, because I took so many shows from Room 710. When I read that, I was like, “Really?” I can guarantee you that in all my years of booking I’ve never had someone say, “Well, we’re thinking about playing Room 710.” The bands that played there had a good time playing, I’m sure, but none of the tours I’ve ever dealt with was it ever an issue of what club they were going to play at. Whether when I was working at Emo’s or booking Red 7 or Mohawk, the bands knew where they wanted to play and I put them where they wanted to play. That has nothing to do with anything more than either him or the scene or the economy. But I can personally guarantee, and there are clubs I do compete with, but that wasn’t one of them.

GW: On the level of that competition, though, what’s that playing field look like in Austin right now? Is it well matched and healthy?

AS: I think so, for the most part. I feel like most of the clubs that book locally and mostly local shows are doing fine in what they’re doing, and the clubs and the promoters that book a lot of touring stuff are doing a decent job of that too. I think there is some crossover, but not as much. Obviously the C3 and us thing gets brought up all the time, and there’s definitely competition, but for the most part, they’re doing much bigger stuff. I mean, these guys are booking, like, Killers shows with like 50,000 people and million dollar guarantees. I can’t even… I mean, when I say I want to grow, I mean grow a little bit. I can’t imagine we’ll ever be booking that, and honestly, like I said, such a big part of what we do is a brand, we have a brand in Transmission in what we do. We book cool stuff, and if it sucks, no offense to the Killers, there are plenty of bands out there like that that I think are terrible and I’d rather not book, even if it makes me a million dollars. I’d rather just retire, and own my house, and have a dog and my wife and enough to pay my bills. I’d rather not do something that I don’t want to do, because at that point, I’ve always said, I might as well have just been an accountant. I’m not doing what I want to do, I’m just moving numbers around. Some people are very good at that and I give people like C3 and other companies like them, Golden Voice and AEG, there’s a lot of big companies in the booking world and they do a really great job at what they do and I’d never slight them for it, but I wouldn’t want to do that, necessarily. I want to book the bands I like, even bands I might not love but I support what they do. There are a lot of bands on the scene, whether they’re punk bands or indie bands, that might not be my favorite band, but they’re cool people and they’re doing something original and working within a music scene that’s very grassroots and I believe in supporting that, and them as artists. And I want to keep doing that.

There are a lot of great bands that have gotten beyond the smaller and medium size venues like Emo’s, and now do shows at places like Stubb’s or the Music Hall, and there’s definitely room to grow there, but there are very few bands from this little scene that have broken out past that. And the few who have, whether they’re Green Day or whoever – and I remember seeing Green Day with only like 30 people when I was younger – but those few bands that do, usually cut off ties with whatever they were anyway, and kind of become another band. Which is fine, that’s totally cool, too. But I think there are a lot of bands that stay within this bubble of independent music that are on bigger labels and still draw 5-10,000 people. So I think there’s definitely room for growth there. So we’ve got our limits, and we can still grow, but I also know that the festival, Fun Fun Fun, mirrors what Transmission does and vice versa.

AS: Have there been instances where you’ve been growing and thought that you need to slow this thing down?

GW: Yeah, sure. Sometimes we’ll be doing too much at once – too many shows going on and we’re booking too many things. We can’t do everything. There’s been times when I’ve said, “Ok, let’s concentrate on this, and expand when we’re ready.” But sometimes when everyone wants you to do something, whether it’s help them put out records, help them book tours, or help them manage and things like that, it’s like, well, you don’t want me to ruin your tour because I’ve forgotten to book you all the California dates because I was too busy booking Fun Fun Fun Fest or something. We have our little team of people, and we do a really good job with what we’re doing, and we’re growing and we’re able to add an employee here or there, but I want to do it in steps, in addition to what we do, whatever that’s going to be, and let’s have this person that we trust and that has proven themselves take over that, instead of us just saying let’s do it and find someone to do it. Otherwise we’re just trying to build something without the infrastructure there, and the competition in Austin makes it on one hand, a little harder, but on the other hand, makes us all work a little harder for it.

Websites:
www.funfunfunfest.com
www.transmissionentertainment.com